tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post6427072228074665882..comments2023-11-03T06:12:35.213-04:00Comments on A Catholic Journey: SSPX, etc.~Joseph the Workerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07512362705041608396noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-32581211869685661062008-07-31T23:04:00.000-04:002008-07-31T23:04:00.000-04:00Thanks for commenting. I'm actually not sure whic...Thanks for commenting. I'm actually not sure which of you is correct. It seems as though some are schismatic (excommunicated for their participation in illicit ordinations) but in some grave circumstances when anything else is impossible that lay people can attend SSPX masses. It's very complicated, and I've seen arguments on both sides based around what the Holy Father has said.~Joseph the Workerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07512362705041608396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-27850408420283442582008-07-31T20:48:00.000-04:002008-07-31T20:48:00.000-04:00Loyolalaw98 is sadly mistaken. No less an author...Loyolalaw98 is sadly mistaken. No less an authority than Cardinal Hoyos has stated that the SSPX is not in schism. If it were not for the SSPX, I would have lost my Catholic faith. I truly hope and pray every day for all Catholics to return to Tradition! God bless you all.<BR/><BR/>Sidney Jude, Postulant<BR/>Third Order/SSPXslcfranciscanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07843328788786194423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-63476503097399773792008-07-17T18:43:00.000-04:002008-07-17T18:43:00.000-04:00Yes, I would agree, it's definitely something we s...Yes, I would agree, it's definitely something we should take a look at as the Church. I think we should look at a) Abuses of the Novus Ordo(meaning what people have done to go beyond what they are allowed) and b)looking in retrospect at areas that have been positive (as I would argue the mass in the common vernacular is) and those that are negative (possible abuses with Holy Communion, for instance.) Thanks for the comments, I think it's an important consideration.~Joseph the Workerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07512362705041608396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-68683107941719682462008-07-17T18:38:00.000-04:002008-07-17T18:38:00.000-04:00I appreciate the distinction you have made between...I appreciate the distinction you have made between "cause & effect" and correlation.<BR/><BR/>What I think is more indicative of the grievous harm done BY THE WAY the Novus Ordo has been implemented is the growth in religious orders and communities who are completely traditional (Priestly Society of St. Peter) or who are Novus Ordo "Lite."<BR/><BR/>There is a clear distinction with orthodox religious communities growing, while their neo-modernist counterparts are dying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-28530594474912482702008-07-17T17:46:00.000-04:002008-07-17T17:46:00.000-04:00You are correct about the name, I typed it out too...You are correct about the name, I typed it out too quickly without thinking about it I've fixed it in the edits.<BR/><BR/>On the second one, obviously, it could have something to do with it. I can't deny that because it's really impossible to prove that something doesn't have any effect at all. On the other hand, data indicates that vocations and conversions were dropping consistently in the years leading up to the new order of the mass. <BR/><BR/>As a matter of fact, all Christian denominations in Europe and the United States have taken hits in attendance and membership over that same time period. In the Catholic case, this is even more dramatic as family size drops, another issue that is hardly mentioned that has happened dramatically in that same time period. <BR/><BR/>Finally, the Catholic Church as a share of the U.S. population has remained fairly steady (thanks of course to immigration). <BR/><BR/>Maybe a better question to ask is what evidence is there, in light of the apparent dwindling of Christianity in general and other factors that impacted vocations and conversions, that the Novus Ordo directly caused a decline in conversions or vocations? Again, I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm saying that the SSPX attributes this change wholly to the Novus Ordo and without any kind of statistical proof.~Joseph the Workerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07512362705041608396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089081638604253564.post-72348953389709130992008-07-17T16:55:00.000-04:002008-07-17T16:55:00.000-04:00First, it's the Society of Saint PIUS X, not Paul ...First, it's the Society of Saint PIUS X, not Paul X.<BR/><BR/>While they are schismatics, they should be termed correctly.<BR/><BR/>Second, how do you back your assertion that "They falsely attribute the decline in conversions and vocations to the Novus Ordo."<BR/><BR/>I think a thinking person would have to at least say that the way the Novus Ordo was implemented had something to do with both declines in conversions and vocations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com